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welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

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coming to you live from Canberra it's

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Richard Saunders hello and welcome to

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the skeptics are an episode number 266

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there's a secret code in there somewhere

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I'm sure coming to you live from the

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Australian skeptics National Convention

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in Canberra I'm here at a table with

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Maynard's here Amanda Jane and a bunch

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of biscuits and fantails and lots of

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noms and drinks and look that I find

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this room could particularly alarming

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Richard because I've actually managed to

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do the Oprah diet lately which means

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identical as know anything she says but

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one thing one thing Oprah's said that I

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thought was interesting which anyone can

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do and it's actually good dietary advice

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is fat bust your house don't have

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chocolate cakes cookies in it and so my

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house doesn't have any of this stuff so

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I don't eat it because all here yeah

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it's all here because the stuff that is

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actually here so I'm going oh my god

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this fantails though there's biscuits

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and things and most people are going

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argue their business pazham going

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foreign objects I don't see very often

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and we're in the green room yet which is

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greenish it's got a green wall over

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there it says place for speakers and

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other people to hide away and have a

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little rest between sessions but it's a

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great convention so far we're halfway

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through the first day lots of good talks

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we had a good night last night with the

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discovery after dark look and I have to

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congratulate the Canberra skeptics on

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putting a very cambron stamp on it here

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at the CSIRO and giving it a real flavor

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of the Australian Capital Territory I

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think they certainly have its our

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nation's capital we're actually in the

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suburb of action which is named after

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action Gough Whitlam who was a superhero

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in the 70s and I think soon we got

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friend dad that's right uranium that's

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right yes mobile phone is exciting it's

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exciting but coming up on this week's

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show which is equally exciting some bits

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about the conventions and little grabs

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and bits but coming over the next week's

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lots of our main and interviews of

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course and I take this opportunity to

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personally thank the listeners to the

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skeptic zone for pitching in and helping

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me get here I'm going to hope I can at

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least live up to her

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furyk expectations yes where we did

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actually get you a full mattress yeah

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it's great and let me tell you it hasn't

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got much use here but I've been having a

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lot of fun looking at it boo boo coming

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up this week so I talked to dr. Chris

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Peters from sense about science in the

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UK he's going to talk about their

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outreach which is asking for the

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evidence very important task for the

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evidence and after that after that we

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have an interview you conducted main art

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about UFOs that's right folks in the

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Hunter Valley and around the newcastle

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area there is actually a great UFO flap

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at the moment as the English would call

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it there's some hot spots I spoke to in

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kirkwood a journalist at the new council

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morning herald about the hot spots on

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the west side of Lake Macquarie and it

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seems like Gloucester now he's someone

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who's been collating UFO reports and

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he's actually got a few he couldn't talk

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about because they're going to be coming

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out in the Hills shortly so there's a

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UFO flap in newcastle at last at last

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and for our international listeners run

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to our your Maps program in Newcastle is

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just a little way north of Sydney that's

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right I used to live between you Carson

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Sydney I don't remember seeing many UFO

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oh there I think he might mention the

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famous a UFO incident where a UFO was

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reported hovering over a lake in the

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Central Coast that's between Sydney nuoc

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and sucking up some water that was me

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those after a party one night uh-huh

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following that we have a weakened

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science with dr. Paul Willis from the

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Royal Institution of Australia and dr.

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Paul Willis is here in fact that the

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convention are you I've seen him running

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around having a cup of tea yeah and look

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in fact everyone is here that's big in

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the skeptical movement I've seen plenty

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of people with dark glasses hiding

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behind cupboards it's been great yeah

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that was because of the party last night

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but where the man is wearing some

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sinister looking glasses but the

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convention i must say we were very happy

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it kicked off with a live appearance of

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james randi he did yet he turned up a

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via camera phone and it was very

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interesting indeed he showed us some of

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these stuff in his office it was great

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and he took the time out to make sure it

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all lined up we Skyped him and there he

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was and the delegates were very happy he

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looked like he'd just come back from a

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rave or something he looked at me look

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at me look a bit disheveled but I think

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you've been out partying you can't keep

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down James Randi done I do

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that's all coming up on this week's show

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what why don't we just sit back and

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while listeners are listening to the

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show I'm going to raid these biscuits

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well one of the things that skeptics

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should do of course is asked for the

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evidence and in fact the motto of

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Australian skeptics is seek the evidence

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always a good thing for skeptics to try

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and do and encourage and on the line

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joining me from the UK I've got dr.

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Chris Peters from the sense about

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science campaign good evening or good

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morning Chris good evening rich it's

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nice as me that's good morning for me

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and good evening for you but that's the

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world we live in it did now you are

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you're involved the sense about science

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in fact a couple of years ago we

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interviewed dr. sheila lane from sense

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about science when was sort of

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relatively new but i wanted to find out

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more about the ask for evidence campaign

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what's that all about so ask for

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evidence is a campaign we've been kind

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of running quietly for about 12 or 18

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months now and it's basically

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encouraging members of the public to ask

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for the evidence behind claims that they

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come across whether it's in newspapers

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on adverts or you know their their

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politicians claims that they make in

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Parliament we want people to ask for the

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evidence because not only is it going to

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kind of empower people to kind of start

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a conversation about evidence what's

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what that all means but it's also going

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to hold individuals and organizations

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who are making these claims to account

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and so what we see as our kind of five

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year target is to really have this

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culture change where people expect to be

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asked for evidence and as a result they

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take precautions so that they actually

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do make sure their claims are

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evidence-based yes we see this quite a

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lot especially in media reports and

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press releases and from companies saying

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scientific research shows or studies

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indicate or this product has been

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scientifically tested which all sounds

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very impressive but quite often it's

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it's rather hollow isn't it

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exactly exactly I mean we've been kind

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of you know different members of the

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public have gone out and asked for

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evidence behind you know various claims

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and it's been really interesting to see

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what they've come back with so there's

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there's a few examples where someone

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asked for evidence behind a detox drink

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and of course there was absolutely no

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evidence that this drink indeed there

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you know did anything on the lines of

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detoxification which has quite a narrow

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scientific meaning so there's lots of

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examples out there of claims that are

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based on pseudoscience and are there to

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capture the unwary consumer absolutely

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and I think that's very important that

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consumers are protected I mean it's it's

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all very well saying let the buyer

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beware but the buyer needs to be given

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the right information so they can be

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fully informed and again it comes down

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to people throwing around scientific

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words and terminology and things like

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that in order to impress people too well

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what quite frankly turn out to be

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vacuous claims how long have you been

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involved with this particular project so

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I've been involved for just over a year

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now and we've really seen over this time

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that it doesn't take very many people

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asking to really kind of make a

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difference and that's why we're really

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keen to kind of expand the campaign

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again more and more people asking and we

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really think that kind of skeptic

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organizations should be kind of at the

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forefront about this because like you

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say people are already seeking the

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evidence but the more people that do it

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the more people that know about the

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campaign the more the kind of ask for

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evidence mantra kind of permeates

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through society and you know the more

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people expect and the more people expect

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to be asked that's what we're really

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asking and I see looking at your website

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which is www.hyken.com the embarrassing

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body show yeah it did we've got quite a

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list of you know high

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public figures who basically said they

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really support the campaign and they're

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really keen for it to kind of go on and

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become this all-consuming thing that

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we're we're hoping it can really you

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know make a culture change one of the

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things that we're really keen to to help

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with here is that asking for evidence is

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often only half the story often it's a

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case of helping them understand the

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evidence so we had an example where

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someone asked for the evidence behind an

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energy drink and the claims that you

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know this improves athletic performance

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you know more than water for example and

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they were sent in return something like

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a hundred scientific papers now for most

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most people that would be the end of the

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conversation they don't have the time or

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the kind of training to go through these

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papers and under in a be able to tell

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whether what they've been said is

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actually an acceptable amount of

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evidence or even they might look at it

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and think oh this science what older

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claim must be correct so we were able to

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kind of get in touch with scientists

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familiar with that field and put them in

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contact with the person you've made the

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ask for evidence request to begin with

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and kind of give them a steer on whether

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the evidence stood up to scientific

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rigor you know were the papers

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peer-reviewed for example is a good

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question to ask that's a very good point

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because there's an old technique which

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you've probably heard called Gish

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galloping as where you flood your

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opposition with so many references and

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papers and points of view or science

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so-called scientific references and

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things like that that they're

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floundering this is a technique using

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debating where you just flood your

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opponent with with endless things that

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they cannot possibly refute in the time

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allocated so it's sort of a cousin to

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that I suppose when when you're flooded

274
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with information that you probably can't

275
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adequately comprehend yeah sounds very

276
00:11:18,550 --> 00:11:16,260
similar sense about science the charity

277
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we've been around for about 10 years and

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we've kind of built up a database of

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scientists expert specialists and we've

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got about 6,000 of them

281
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and so we've got a really strong kind of

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group of people that we can go to to

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help you don't understand evidence so in

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whether it's a claim about Wi-Fi causing

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cancer or you know baby's bottles

286
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causing who knows what we've got people

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up there who were willing to stand up

288
00:11:49,250 --> 00:11:47,550
for their science kind of give us what

289
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the body of evidence says rather than

290
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perhaps in this case isolated studies

291
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which may or may not be you know

292
00:11:59,270 --> 00:11:57,720
adequate you get many inquiries from the

293
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general public who were maybe a little

294
00:12:05,660 --> 00:12:01,490
bit confused or wanting to know more

295
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yeah we really do I mean a lot of it is

296
00:12:08,750 --> 00:12:07,290
our kind of supporters who we've been

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involved with over the years who are

298
00:12:15,500 --> 00:12:12,600
often you know scientists or you know on

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road to becoming scientists but we've

300
00:12:19,400 --> 00:12:17,160
seen more and more over the last year

301
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you know friends of theirs kind of one

302
00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:21,240
step removed kind of those kind of

303
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people asking so it's it's definitely a

304
00:12:28,130 --> 00:12:25,680
case of the general public are getting

305
00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:28,140
in touch and beginning to kind of take

306
00:12:31,070 --> 00:12:29,490
on the message of the campaign but what

307
00:12:33,950 --> 00:12:31,080
we really need to do is promote it and

308
00:12:36,560 --> 00:12:33,960
get it further out there I think that's

309
00:12:38,540 --> 00:12:36,570
a very very good idea the more

310
00:12:41,420 --> 00:12:38,550
information that the general public can

311
00:12:42,650 --> 00:12:41,430
receive and even people like like me you

312
00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:42,660
know wanting to find out some more

313
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decent information it's always nice to

314
00:12:52,370 --> 00:12:47,580
have more resources so the website again

315
00:12:54,770 --> 00:12:52,380
is ww sense about science org but

316
00:12:56,540 --> 00:12:54,780
there's also a twitter feed and I

317
00:12:59,300 --> 00:12:56,550
imagine there's a Facebook page is that

318
00:13:01,760 --> 00:12:59,310
right yep sense about science has got a

319
00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:01,770
twitter handle its sense about sigh and

320
00:13:05,420 --> 00:13:04,170
we've also got a facebook page and if

321
00:13:09,110 --> 00:13:05,430
you're going to be tweeting about ask

322
00:13:10,760 --> 00:13:09,120
for evidence use the hashtag ask for

323
00:13:12,170 --> 00:13:10,770
evidence and if you go on the sense

324
00:13:13,610 --> 00:13:12,180
about science website you'll be able to

325
00:13:15,410 --> 00:13:13,620
find the ask for evidence pages where

326
00:13:17,510 --> 00:13:15,420
you can see you know example there's

327
00:13:18,950 --> 00:13:17,520
about 70 or so examples of them

328
00:13:21,100 --> 00:13:18,960
different people you've gone out there

329
00:13:24,920 --> 00:13:21,110
and ask for evidence behind things like

330
00:13:26,450 --> 00:13:24,930
hangover prevention patches or even

331
00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:26,460
thinks that you know politicians are

332
00:13:31,490 --> 00:13:30,090
said in it parliaments that's great yes

333
00:13:34,070 --> 00:13:31,500
i'm just having a quick look at it now

334
00:13:35,630 --> 00:13:34,080
there's all the information the twitter

335
00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:35,640
which everybody should follow since

336
00:13:41,850 --> 00:13:39,370
about sigh as CI using the hashtag

337
00:13:44,190 --> 00:13:41,860
ask for evidence so people can put that

338
00:13:46,860 --> 00:13:44,200
in put their question in there put the

339
00:13:48,390 --> 00:13:46,870
hashtag in and that will come to your

340
00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:48,400
attention I think that's a wonderful

341
00:13:53,130 --> 00:13:51,370
thing well Chris thanks very much for

342
00:13:54,840 --> 00:13:53,140
spending some time to talk about sense

343
00:13:56,040 --> 00:13:54,850
about science with the skeptic zone it's

344
00:13:58,590 --> 00:13:56,050
good to catch up with sense about

345
00:14:00,690 --> 00:13:58,600
science because it's been a couple of

346
00:14:03,180 --> 00:14:00,700
years since we found out what was

347
00:14:06,329 --> 00:14:03,190
happening and I hope we can chat soon

348
00:14:07,740 --> 00:14:06,339
about the any progress great yes you

349
00:14:09,480 --> 00:14:07,750
could stand we've got lots more to talk

350
00:14:23,910 --> 00:14:09,490
about so open up so we can do something

351
00:14:26,250 --> 00:14:23,920
a teacher thanks Chris hi this is Tim

352
00:14:29,190 --> 00:14:26,260
Farley you probably know me from what's

353
00:14:31,350 --> 00:14:29,200
the harm net a catalog of the real world

354
00:14:35,070 --> 00:14:31,360
harm caused by lack of critical thinking

355
00:14:38,280 --> 00:14:35,080
but that's not my only project i present

356
00:14:40,560 --> 00:14:38,290
at skeptic events I post a daily skeptic

357
00:14:43,380 --> 00:14:40,570
history fact on Twitter and Facebook and

358
00:14:46,500 --> 00:14:43,390
I blog about using new techniques on the

359
00:14:49,829 --> 00:14:46,510
internet to advance skepticism come over

360
00:14:53,100 --> 00:14:49,839
to skep tools com and check out my

361
00:14:57,810 --> 00:14:53,110
latest ideas but first enjoy the rest of

362
00:15:05,330 --> 00:15:02,500
here's Maynard spooky action at a

363
00:15:10,130 --> 00:15:08,150
I'm here in interrogation room number

364
00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:10,140
two in Bolton Street of the Newcastle

365
00:15:14,090 --> 00:15:11,970
Herald well oddly enough Lee Harvey

366
00:15:16,340 --> 00:15:14,100
Oswald was held briefly 50 years ago

367
00:15:18,410 --> 00:15:16,350
they didn't find out a sting this month

368
00:15:20,420 --> 00:15:18,420
and i'm here with in kirkwood hi n how

369
00:15:21,710 --> 00:15:20,430
are you I'm well thanks Mona now but how

370
00:15:23,300 --> 00:15:21,720
many years you been writing for The

371
00:15:26,540 --> 00:15:23,310
Herald I started here as a cadet

372
00:15:28,580 --> 00:15:26,550
journalist at the age of 27 in 1987 so a

373
00:15:30,110 --> 00:15:28,590
bit longer than I'd expected but it's a

374
00:15:32,030 --> 00:15:30,120
lovely job I get paid to watch the world

375
00:15:34,010 --> 00:15:32,040
go by and I'm quite happy doing what I

376
00:15:36,500 --> 00:15:34,020
do and in the reason I'm talking to is

377
00:15:38,960 --> 00:15:36,510
because we are currently experiencing a

378
00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:38,970
minor UFO flap in the hunter and

379
00:15:43,310 --> 00:15:41,490
Newcastle so it would appear we were

380
00:15:44,690 --> 00:15:43,320
sent the wonderful world of the Internet

381
00:15:46,430 --> 00:15:44,700
means that the herald mother news

382
00:15:48,350 --> 00:15:46,440
organizations like yourself can be sent

383
00:15:50,630 --> 00:15:48,360
all sorts of weird and wonderful things

384
00:15:52,760 --> 00:15:50,640
from the public two weekends ago we were

385
00:15:55,820 --> 00:15:52,770
sent some photographs taken by a family

386
00:15:58,130 --> 00:15:55,830
at Belmont going coming home after a

387
00:16:00,470 --> 00:15:58,140
meal on the Friday night of an object

388
00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:00,480
that they watched a blue sphere very

389
00:16:05,210 --> 00:16:02,610
bright blue sphere turning from blue to

390
00:16:08,180 --> 00:16:05,220
red and flying and hanging in the sky

391
00:16:09,530 --> 00:16:08,190
traveling around unusual patterns they

392
00:16:12,950 --> 00:16:09,540
took some photographs of them they

393
00:16:14,660 --> 00:16:12,960
emailed the photographs that was Lee

394
00:16:18,080 --> 00:16:14,670
Harvey Oswald they took sensing

395
00:16:20,930 --> 00:16:18,090
photographs to the Herald witch two days

396
00:16:23,570 --> 00:16:20,940
later on the Tuesday i looked at blew up

397
00:16:25,670 --> 00:16:23,580
on our screen and the color wasn't there

398
00:16:28,250 --> 00:16:25,680
but the amazing thing was that in one of

399
00:16:30,950 --> 00:16:28,260
them the single life that you saw on the

400
00:16:34,160 --> 00:16:30,960
other iphone picture broke up into five

401
00:16:36,770 --> 00:16:34,170
or six different spots of light in what

402
00:16:40,430 --> 00:16:36,780
looked to me to be a boomerang or the

403
00:16:41,300 --> 00:16:40,440
front of a wedge shape and to me that

404
00:16:42,710 --> 00:16:41,310
was you know it was something that was

405
00:16:45,740 --> 00:16:42,720
unusual it certainly wasn't a normal

406
00:16:48,850 --> 00:16:45,750
airplane spoke to the people that took

407
00:16:51,380 --> 00:16:48,860
the photograph wrote a story from there

408
00:16:54,470 --> 00:16:51,390
and not only was i contacted by people

409
00:16:56,420 --> 00:16:54,480
that emailed me but the Herald's

410
00:16:58,580 --> 00:16:56,430
facebook page lit up with hundreds and

411
00:17:00,850 --> 00:16:58,590
hundreds of comments some of them

412
00:17:03,380 --> 00:17:00,860
derisive as you'd imagine some of them

413
00:17:05,449 --> 00:17:03,390
you know positive some negative but also

414
00:17:07,220 --> 00:17:05,459
through that we were then sent other

415
00:17:09,890 --> 00:17:07,230
material which we've continued to

416
00:17:13,070 --> 00:17:09,900
investigate now one of those was a video

417
00:17:17,120 --> 00:17:13,080
taken by a Belmont man on the last day

418
00:17:18,630 --> 00:17:17,130
of a sep tember looking in a similar

419
00:17:20,819 --> 00:17:18,640
direction to the person to

420
00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:20,829
later took the photos that they kicked

421
00:17:24,750 --> 00:17:23,410
all this off so this man I mean by Nova

422
00:17:27,540 --> 00:17:24,760
Tom and his surname it eludes me at the

423
00:17:29,670 --> 00:17:27,550
moment took a video from his virender in

424
00:17:31,890 --> 00:17:29,680
Belmont Street basically behind the gun

425
00:17:34,350 --> 00:17:31,900
your hotel looking west then when you

426
00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:34,360
look at this video it's on YouTube and I

427
00:17:37,980 --> 00:17:35,650
think we can probably provide a link for

428
00:17:39,930 --> 00:17:37,990
you you can see the blue light hanging

429
00:17:42,840 --> 00:17:39,940
and once against the blue sphere hang in

430
00:17:44,550 --> 00:17:42,850
the sky seems to be station being

431
00:17:45,990 --> 00:17:44,560
stationary he moves the camera in and

432
00:17:47,610 --> 00:17:46,000
out and I bring it forward and back and

433
00:17:49,740 --> 00:17:47,620
then the light starts to move and you

434
00:17:51,870 --> 00:17:49,750
can quite clearly see it move because

435
00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:51,880
you've got stationary lights from the

436
00:17:55,740 --> 00:17:53,530
western side of Lake Macquarie at the

437
00:17:57,540 --> 00:17:55,750
bottom of the frame and this light moves

438
00:17:59,490 --> 00:17:57,550
you don't get a lot of depth in the

439
00:18:04,200 --> 00:17:59,500
picture so it was interesting enough

440
00:18:07,470 --> 00:18:04,210
when I then tracked him down what he saw

441
00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:07,480
was a light that had flown in as far as

442
00:18:12,450 --> 00:18:09,250
he was concerned had flown in from the

443
00:18:14,550 --> 00:18:12,460
west of the lake had flown over where he

444
00:18:16,290 --> 00:18:14,560
was at Belmont had flown down to the

445
00:18:18,930 --> 00:18:16,300
south of him towards blacksmiths beach

446
00:18:24,840 --> 00:18:18,940
and then had shot back west over the

447
00:18:26,550 --> 00:18:24,850
lake again and that's a horse and Andy

448
00:18:28,740 --> 00:18:26,560
when you listen to this video you'll see

449
00:18:30,030 --> 00:18:28,750
people talking and there it's clearly

450
00:18:31,050 --> 00:18:30,040
not the first time they've seen it

451
00:18:32,310 --> 00:18:31,060
because they're saying well this you

452
00:18:35,190 --> 00:18:32,320
know this is what your father saw the

453
00:18:37,290 --> 00:18:35,200
other night so we've now had two

454
00:18:38,730 --> 00:18:37,300
sightings of this blue spherical object

455
00:18:41,700 --> 00:18:38,740
and it also changed color so it goes

456
00:18:44,040 --> 00:18:41,710
from blue to red and it's clearly

457
00:18:46,740 --> 00:18:44,050
traveling in a way that it stops and

458
00:18:49,560 --> 00:18:46,750
starts and flies in not an aeroplane

459
00:18:51,090 --> 00:18:49,570
type fashion any chance of being some

460
00:18:52,980 --> 00:18:51,100
sort of remote vehicle or some sort of

461
00:18:54,870 --> 00:18:52,990
remote toils I know that you know it

462
00:18:56,490 --> 00:18:54,880
could be and people have written in that

463
00:18:58,380 --> 00:18:56,500
sort of suggestion and I think without

464
00:18:59,400 --> 00:18:58,390
some sort of detail analysis at the film

465
00:19:03,090 --> 00:18:59,410
you've got to say well that's quite a

466
00:19:05,430 --> 00:19:03,100
possibility but my looking at it is that

467
00:19:07,020 --> 00:19:05,440
it doesn't appear to be moving I mean to

468
00:19:09,540 --> 00:19:07,030
travel such a distance that I would sort

469
00:19:10,860 --> 00:19:09,550
of discount that sort of thing and yes

470
00:19:12,510 --> 00:19:10,870
you could have a you know a little

471
00:19:14,940 --> 00:19:12,520
gyrocopters up there something like that

472
00:19:16,890 --> 00:19:14,950
but this was an intense blue light that

473
00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:16,900
looks you know it's something the size

474
00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:18,250
of a helicopter or something it's not

475
00:19:22,470 --> 00:19:20,050
small you know so i would say probably

476
00:19:23,460 --> 00:19:22,480
not and in what way does the publicity

477
00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:23,470
from the paper

478
00:19:27,149 --> 00:19:24,970
another than media outlets in areas

479
00:19:28,140 --> 00:19:27,159
drive these people to come out the

480
00:19:29,610 --> 00:19:28,150
woodwork do you think people are always

481
00:19:31,049 --> 00:19:29,620
seeing these things all the time and

482
00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:31,059
when something like this comes up they

483
00:19:35,130 --> 00:19:33,010
contact you or you giving it the

484
00:19:38,370 --> 00:19:35,140
publicity makes people go looking more I

485
00:19:39,450 --> 00:19:38,380
think it's the former I yeah there's

486
00:19:41,159 --> 00:19:39,460
obviously when something like this

487
00:19:43,020 --> 00:19:41,169
happens people write in and then you

488
00:19:44,250 --> 00:19:43,030
then look at see whether things that are

489
00:19:45,870 --> 00:19:44,260
being sent to you and newsworthy and so

490
00:19:47,880 --> 00:19:45,880
you keep the story going if you like and

491
00:19:50,430 --> 00:19:47,890
I wrote three stories last week plus a

492
00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:50,440
column on it the third story I went

493
00:19:54,960 --> 00:19:52,890
looking for people both in the straight

494
00:19:58,169 --> 00:19:54,970
Meteorological Society if you like and

495
00:19:59,850 --> 00:19:58,179
also in the UFO community and a person

496
00:20:02,399 --> 00:19:59,860
from Queensland that I spoke to from the

497
00:20:04,500 --> 00:20:02,409
UFO community said you know what writing

498
00:20:08,250 --> 00:20:04,510
about this does in mainstream media is

499
00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:08,260
that it empowers people to speak up in a

500
00:20:11,730 --> 00:20:09,970
way that they wouldn't otherwise because

501
00:20:13,500 --> 00:20:11,740
they can see it makes it makes it

502
00:20:15,180 --> 00:20:13,510
legitimate it's being treated seriously

503
00:20:19,279 --> 00:20:15,190
and they're not going to be ridiculed

504
00:20:21,779 --> 00:20:19,289
for it so look I've received a number of

505
00:20:23,250 --> 00:20:21,789
emails from people who've given me

506
00:20:25,080 --> 00:20:23,260
contact detail some of them are sent me

507
00:20:26,850 --> 00:20:25,090
photographs that I can't explain at the

508
00:20:28,169 --> 00:20:26,860
moment but rather than put them up

509
00:20:29,760 --> 00:20:28,179
immediately without looking at them

510
00:20:32,370 --> 00:20:29,770
having them ridiculed I'm your dual bit

511
00:20:35,250 --> 00:20:32,380
more research this time also if you look

512
00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:35,260
at the Herald Facebook page you'll see

513
00:20:38,039 --> 00:20:36,970
people that are written in there you

514
00:20:39,270 --> 00:20:38,049
know they put their names and their

515
00:20:40,710 --> 00:20:39,280
phone numbers there and they've said

516
00:20:43,380 --> 00:20:40,720
look please you don't speak to us we've

517
00:20:44,850 --> 00:20:43,390
seen similar sorts of things are you

518
00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:44,860
going to get some photographic experts

519
00:20:47,909 --> 00:20:45,970
to have a look at these photos and

520
00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:47,919
videos look i have i have actually

521
00:20:51,210 --> 00:20:49,450
really wait what we're going to do yet I

522
00:20:52,680 --> 00:20:51,220
mean unfortunately this is really you

523
00:20:54,270 --> 00:20:52,690
know it's a sideline to medallion work

524
00:20:56,159 --> 00:20:54,280
which is usually perhaps a bit more

525
00:20:58,320 --> 00:20:56,169
serious on mainstream issues in this so

526
00:20:59,640 --> 00:20:58,330
I've got to do a fair bit of a mountain

527
00:21:01,470 --> 00:20:59,650
time but actually actually as a

528
00:21:03,149 --> 00:21:01,480
journalist it is it a bit of a worry

529
00:21:04,830 --> 00:21:03,159
feeder to do these things because it's

530
00:21:06,659 --> 00:21:04,840
somehow you lose some credibility by

531
00:21:07,919 --> 00:21:06,669
touching these items I know that happens

532
00:21:10,649 --> 00:21:07,929
to me that I have that problem anyway

533
00:21:12,360 --> 00:21:10,659
well if it if it does no one's said

534
00:21:14,250 --> 00:21:12,370
anything to me and I'd like to think not

535
00:21:16,169 --> 00:21:14,260
but yeah I think there will always be

536
00:21:18,630 --> 00:21:16,179
those people that ridicule these sorts

537
00:21:21,029 --> 00:21:18,640
of things my without straying too much

538
00:21:23,580 --> 00:21:21,039
into my family life my own wife is very

539
00:21:25,230 --> 00:21:23,590
much an empiricist if she can't see a

540
00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:25,240
mathematical equation for something she

541
00:21:29,789 --> 00:21:27,730
doesn't know John skeptics you said

542
00:21:32,760 --> 00:21:29,799
searches for to the audience she says to

543
00:21:35,370 --> 00:21:32,770
me that my interest in this is a bit

544
00:21:36,419 --> 00:21:35,380
like a religious experience where we're

545
00:21:37,739 --> 00:21:36,429
all so

546
00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:37,749
in one way or another for something that

547
00:21:41,039 --> 00:21:39,970
validates our lives now I haven't

548
00:21:42,389 --> 00:21:41,049
stopped to think about that until she

549
00:21:44,489 --> 00:21:42,399
mentioned it recently and I think

550
00:21:46,139 --> 00:21:44,499
there's possibly an element of that in

551
00:21:50,810 --> 00:21:46,149
what I'm doing and what other people are

552
00:21:54,029 --> 00:21:50,820
doing but I've long believed that a

553
00:21:55,739 --> 00:21:54,039
universe that is supposedly 13 billion

554
00:22:00,389 --> 00:21:55,749
years old that is 13 billion light-years

555
00:22:02,549 --> 00:22:00,399
across that has an simply uncountable

556
00:22:05,039 --> 00:22:02,559
number of billions of planetary systems

557
00:22:08,159 --> 00:22:05,049
and galaxies we cannot be the only

558
00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:08,169
living thing now the conventional answer

559
00:22:12,269 --> 00:22:09,730
to that is yes we may not be but the

560
00:22:13,590 --> 00:22:12,279
distances between the unep arts of the

561
00:22:15,259 --> 00:22:13,600
universe are so great that you can't

562
00:22:18,450 --> 00:22:15,269
physically travel there in a lifetime

563
00:22:20,580 --> 00:22:18,460
but the answer to that of you listen to

564
00:22:22,499 --> 00:22:20,590
UF own law is that these people these

565
00:22:24,119 --> 00:22:22,509
beings have already found a way to

566
00:22:27,029 --> 00:22:24,129
travel through those dimensional you

567
00:22:28,799 --> 00:22:27,039
know issues or if you look at the scale

568
00:22:30,810 --> 00:22:28,809
of things what we think to be a long

569
00:22:32,279 --> 00:22:30,820
time you know might not be a long time

570
00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:32,289
in the same way that I don't suppose a

571
00:22:35,519 --> 00:22:33,850
fly realizes these are live for two

572
00:22:38,100 --> 00:22:35,529
weeks and dies you know that's a long

573
00:22:40,169 --> 00:22:38,110
time for him myself now in where was the

574
00:22:42,060 --> 00:22:40,179
hot spot where is the portal for these

575
00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:42,070
sightings in the hunter is is there one

576
00:22:46,019 --> 00:22:43,330
that you're more likely to sound unusual

577
00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:46,029
things in the sky than anywhere else no

578
00:22:49,799 --> 00:22:48,490
I don't think so but I that the

579
00:22:52,379 --> 00:22:49,809
sightings that have come up a lot of

580
00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:52,389
them do sin to be in Lake Macquarie the

581
00:22:57,899 --> 00:22:55,330
other area is north of you up towards

582
00:22:59,759 --> 00:22:57,909
Gloucester I've located a few more

583
00:23:01,769 --> 00:22:59,769
sightings up there that I can't quite

584
00:23:04,350 --> 00:23:01,779
share with you yet but their and their

585
00:23:05,789 --> 00:23:04,360
sightings that supposedly Williamtown

586
00:23:08,279 --> 00:23:05,799
air base has been involved with as well

587
00:23:09,539 --> 00:23:08,289
allegedly scrambling jets now they we've

588
00:23:11,009 --> 00:23:09,549
put these questions to the air base

589
00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:11,019
before and they've always denied there's

590
00:23:14,430 --> 00:23:13,090
been any activity but the people that

591
00:23:16,710 --> 00:23:14,440
have made these claims insist that

592
00:23:18,419 --> 00:23:16,720
they've seen strange things fly through

593
00:23:22,169 --> 00:23:18,429
the sky and then ref jets following them

594
00:23:23,730 --> 00:23:22,179
well and look yeah it is a real mystery

595
00:23:24,930 --> 00:23:23,740
isn't it and even if it is just someone

596
00:23:26,609 --> 00:23:24,940
having a bit of a hoax over the lake

597
00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:26,619
with a flying aircraft even that itself

598
00:23:33,570 --> 00:23:28,090
is a pretty interesting little story

599
00:23:37,789 --> 00:23:33,580
well I don't think why would people go

600
00:23:39,989 --> 00:23:37,799
to these links to hoax I mean yes we

601
00:23:41,190 --> 00:23:39,999
people say odds are homes as this or

602
00:23:43,019 --> 00:23:41,200
that but you know think about it it

603
00:23:44,700 --> 00:23:43,029
takes so especially for people that and

604
00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:44,710
there's a circuit where you can see

605
00:23:47,159 --> 00:23:45,850
people go out and speak about these

606
00:23:49,379 --> 00:23:47,169
things at length and they take their

607
00:23:51,419 --> 00:23:49,389
slides and things I mean

608
00:23:53,099 --> 00:23:51,429
it's an incredible act to try and want

609
00:23:54,329 --> 00:23:53,109
to maintain a belief in something like

610
00:23:56,249 --> 00:23:54,339
that if you don't really believe that a

611
00:23:58,859 --> 00:23:56,259
minute if no one's gonna make money

612
00:24:00,389 --> 00:23:58,869
standing there in an RSL club and whoop

613
00:24:02,459 --> 00:24:00,399
up talking to 30 people you know it's

614
00:24:04,829 --> 00:24:02,469
not something you do for fun you know

615
00:24:06,959 --> 00:24:04,839
people obviously believe these things

616
00:24:10,019 --> 00:24:06,969
and the amazing thing about the net is

617
00:24:11,279 --> 00:24:10,029
that it does give you instant contact

618
00:24:13,229 --> 00:24:11,289
with people that you would not otherwise

619
00:24:14,579 --> 00:24:13,239
have been able to meet so I've got no

620
00:24:17,249 --> 00:24:14,589
doubt there's been an explosion of

621
00:24:20,249 --> 00:24:17,259
interest in conspiracy theories and and

622
00:24:22,289 --> 00:24:20,259
UF ology since the internet and since

623
00:24:24,539 --> 00:24:22,299
google has enabled us to instantly get

624
00:24:26,099 --> 00:24:24,549
where we need to get previously you'd go

625
00:24:27,359 --> 00:24:26,109
down you buy a book and you see a

626
00:24:29,639 --> 00:24:27,369
reference and maybe go and get another

627
00:24:31,769 --> 00:24:29,649
book now you can literally contact

628
00:24:33,449 --> 00:24:31,779
people as I do in this as a journalist

629
00:24:35,190 --> 00:24:33,459
you want to find someone you look them

630
00:24:37,409 --> 00:24:35,200
up you find their email you write them

631
00:24:39,389 --> 00:24:37,419
an email and amazingly a day later or an

632
00:24:41,069 --> 00:24:39,399
hour later they write back so within

633
00:24:45,149 --> 00:24:41,079
hours of the first article appearing

634
00:24:46,739 --> 00:24:45,159
last week I had emails from UFO hunters

635
00:24:48,209 --> 00:24:46,749
if you like in the United States about

636
00:24:50,789 --> 00:24:48,219
the first article that we published the

637
00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:50,799
Newcastle Herald and it found its way to

638
00:24:54,719 --> 00:24:52,450
the states within hours have been

639
00:24:56,459 --> 00:24:54,729
published it's quite extraordinary then

640
00:24:58,560 --> 00:24:56,469
I'll also limited to see what you

641
00:25:00,509 --> 00:24:58,570
uncover in the hunter because this

642
00:25:01,979 --> 00:25:00,519
current flap has just uncovered a lot of

643
00:25:03,629 --> 00:25:01,989
things and I want to see if people

644
00:25:04,859 --> 00:25:03,639
coming out talking about sightings in

645
00:25:07,499 --> 00:25:04,869
the past I want to know what's gone on

646
00:25:08,849 --> 00:25:07,509
here hmm well yeah I don't mean I don't

647
00:25:12,209 --> 00:25:08,859
know what's going on either I do know

648
00:25:13,379 --> 00:25:12,219
that well I just been sent some material

649
00:25:15,539 --> 00:25:13,389
now which includes a number of

650
00:25:17,609 --> 00:25:15,549
historical you know sightings in in the

651
00:25:19,079 --> 00:25:17,619
hunter I mean there have been there was

652
00:25:20,909 --> 00:25:19,089
a book written in the 90s which my

653
00:25:22,469 --> 00:25:20,919
colleague Joanne McCarthy wrote about

654
00:25:24,690 --> 00:25:22,479
inside those paper i think it's called

655
00:25:26,669 --> 00:25:24,700
the gosford files and that was a

656
00:25:30,839 --> 00:25:26,679
collection of UFO sightings on the

657
00:25:32,399 --> 00:25:30,849
central coast which was spawned by a

658
00:25:34,229 --> 00:25:32,409
sighting which is recorded in the

659
00:25:36,209 --> 00:25:34,239
Central Coast Newspapers and one of the

660
00:25:37,739 --> 00:25:36,219
one of the one of the sources for this

661
00:25:40,469 --> 00:25:37,749
story was a serving Central Coast

662
00:25:41,940 --> 00:25:40,479
policeman who swears he saw a UFO come

663
00:25:43,769 --> 00:25:41,950
down sucking water up out of the lake

664
00:25:47,039 --> 00:25:43,779
now that's was the source of that book

665
00:25:48,719 --> 00:25:47,049
and those articles reported by Jason

666
00:25:50,819 --> 00:25:48,729
Gordon colleague of ours works here now

667
00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:50,829
is off at the moment but he wrote those

668
00:25:54,629 --> 00:25:52,690
newspaper stories and the book the

669
00:25:56,100 --> 00:25:54,639
gospel files is dedicated to him because

670
00:25:57,900 --> 00:25:56,110
of his reporting on that

671
00:26:00,270 --> 00:25:57,910
I look forward to see what you uncover

672
00:26:13,299 --> 00:26:00,280
here in the hunter and if I do disappear

673
00:26:17,900 --> 00:26:16,100
virtual skeptics is a weekly web show in

674
00:26:20,210 --> 00:26:17,910
which we discuss the latest news in

675
00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:20,220
skepticism whether it's a new case of

676
00:26:23,900 --> 00:26:21,690
spontaneous human combustion a

677
00:26:26,120 --> 00:26:23,910
conspiracy theory the latest update on

678
00:26:27,770 --> 00:26:26,130
the upcoming robot apocalypse tech news

679
00:26:30,260 --> 00:26:27,780
for skeptics are the latest wacky

680
00:26:32,659 --> 00:26:30,270
religious claim we cover it all we

681
00:26:35,299 --> 00:26:32,669
record the show live as a Google+ on-air

682
00:26:37,130 --> 00:26:35,309
hangout so join us in our host Brian

683
00:26:39,230 --> 00:26:37,140
Gregory for an hour of mostly

684
00:26:42,140 --> 00:26:39,240
intelligent talk every wednesday at

685
00:26:45,169 --> 00:26:42,150
eight pm eastern US time watch us at

686
00:26:47,810 --> 00:26:45,179
virtual skeptics calm and participate in

687
00:26:50,750 --> 00:26:47,820
the show on our hashtag virtual skeptics

688
00:26:55,130 --> 00:26:50,760
the virtual skeptics it's like meet the

689
00:26:57,350 --> 00:26:55,140
press but with chupacabras welcome to a

690
00:26:59,350 --> 00:26:57,360
week in science from our iOS bringing

691
00:27:02,659 --> 00:26:59,360
you the science news you need to know

692
00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:02,669
new space neutrinos evacuate evacuate

693
00:27:10,220 --> 00:27:05,970
and overconfident quiz cheats that's

694
00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:12,720
imagine you're in a crowded building and

695
00:27:19,170 --> 00:27:17,290
then you hear this which exit are you

696
00:27:20,910 --> 00:27:19,180
going to take scientists developed an

697
00:27:23,850 --> 00:27:20,920
online game to test whether people

698
00:27:26,700 --> 00:27:23,860
responded better to memorized evacuation

699
00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:26,710
instructions exit signs or whether they

700
00:27:30,990 --> 00:27:28,930
just follow the crowd when people were

701
00:27:33,510 --> 00:27:31,000
given conflicting instructions such as

702
00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:33,520
seeing other people using one door but a

703
00:27:38,340 --> 00:27:35,890
clear exit sign on another they made

704
00:27:40,980 --> 00:27:38,350
unpredictable and irrational evacuation

705
00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:40,990
decisions understanding why we make

706
00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:42,850
these decisions will help to develop

707
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:45,850
better evacuation procedures you can

708
00:27:52,290 --> 00:27:48,010
test your response to this game we have

709
00:27:54,140 --> 00:27:52,300
a link on our website scientists at the

710
00:27:57,420 --> 00:27:54,150
South Pole have been celebrating after

711
00:27:59,850 --> 00:27:57,430
detecting Astrophysical neutrinos for

712
00:28:02,220 --> 00:27:59,860
the first time this rare type of

713
00:28:05,070 --> 00:28:02,230
neutrino comes from outside our solar

714
00:28:07,290 --> 00:28:05,080
system and is a very high energy nearly

715
00:28:09,930 --> 00:28:07,300
massless particle that is smaller than

716
00:28:12,420 --> 00:28:09,940
an atom sensors buried deep at the South

717
00:28:14,490 --> 00:28:12,430
Pole have reliably detected the special

718
00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:14,500
particles for the first time potentially

719
00:28:19,110 --> 00:28:16,810
carrying information about distant parts

720
00:28:21,450 --> 00:28:19,120
of the galaxy this discovery will lead

721
00:28:24,120 --> 00:28:21,460
to new ways to explore how our universe

722
00:28:27,090 --> 00:28:24,130
works allowing us to probe the far

723
00:28:29,250 --> 00:28:27,100
reaches of the galaxy and beyond you're

724
00:28:32,820 --> 00:28:29,260
listening to a week in science from our

725
00:28:37,110 --> 00:28:32,830
iOS and now four sides headlines in 30

726
00:28:39,900 --> 00:28:37,120
seconds greenhouse gas emissions have

727
00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:39,910
reached an all-time high with annual co2

728
00:28:45,390 --> 00:28:42,130
emissions having risen fifty-eight

729
00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:45,400
percent since 1990 spending just five

730
00:28:51,180 --> 00:28:47,890
dollars extra on health care per person

731
00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:51,190
in developing countries could save 147

732
00:28:57,480 --> 00:28:55,090
million kids by 2035 but only if we

733
00:28:59,850 --> 00:28:57,490
spend it in the right way unusual El

734
00:29:02,280 --> 00:28:59,860
Nino events will occur twice as often in

735
00:29:04,950 --> 00:29:02,290
the future even based on a conservative

736
00:29:07,740 --> 00:29:04,960
global warming scenario and people who

737
00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:07,750
use Google to find quiz answers actually

738
00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:09,610
think they're smarter than people who

739
00:29:15,300 --> 00:29:13,210
rely on their brain alone don't forget

740
00:29:17,190 --> 00:29:15,310
to watch science behind the headlines on

741
00:29:19,950 --> 00:29:17,200
Tuesday night where we'll be looking at

742
00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:19,960
those holiday blues that's all for this

743
00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:21,730
a week in science I'll catch you next

744
00:29:40,490 --> 00:29:37,340
the skeptic magazine the journal from

745
00:29:42,710 --> 00:29:40,500
Australian skeptics subscribe online to

746
00:29:48,100 --> 00:29:42,720
the world's second oldest skeptical

747
00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:48,110
magazine visit w WC oau and click the

748
00:29:55,580 --> 00:29:51,210
publication's league you can also find

749
00:29:58,700 --> 00:29:55,590
their over 30 years on back issues free

750
00:30:19,430 --> 00:29:58,710
to download the skeptic magazine from

751
00:30:21,620 --> 00:30:19,440
Australian skeptics why don't we just

752
00:30:24,770 --> 00:30:21,630
start at the beginning folks i'm here at

753
00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:24,780
the CSIRO secret research center we're

754
00:30:28,340 --> 00:30:26,730
downstairs they're working on cold

755
00:30:30,590 --> 00:30:28,350
fusion and other interesting stuff but

756
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:30,600
i'm here with oh well now will you from

757
00:30:34,430 --> 00:30:32,010
hall work this great nation of ours

758
00:30:36,980 --> 00:30:34,440
canberra know you but you caught a cab

759
00:30:38,180 --> 00:30:36,990
here yeah well actually i'm not coming

760
00:30:40,610 --> 00:30:38,190
to the invention unfortunately but I'm

761
00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:40,620
he denied so okay so what it was bit

762
00:30:43,669 --> 00:30:42,090
what I have to what they wouldn't let

763
00:30:47,210 --> 00:30:43,679
you was there an incident you gonna go

764
00:30:49,010 --> 00:30:47,220
it's fam family issues we certainly will

765
00:30:51,260 --> 00:30:49,020
understand up the other things to do is

766
00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:51,270
look because it's all about conspiracies

767
00:30:54,740 --> 00:30:52,650
this weekend what is your favorite

768
00:30:58,670 --> 00:30:54,750
conspiracy you must have one

769
00:30:59,870 --> 00:30:58,680
oh I don't know really oh you've got

770
00:31:02,510 --> 00:30:59,880
you've stuck me I'm afraid what's a

771
00:31:05,060 --> 00:31:02,520
favorite conspiracy Wow because i

772
00:31:07,700 --> 00:31:05,070
thought the the new one on the oj of

773
00:31:09,530 --> 00:31:07,710
sight k one was interesting the it was a

774
00:31:11,180 --> 00:31:09,540
Secret Service agent i thought that's

775
00:31:12,950 --> 00:31:11,190
about the only plausible conspiracy i've

776
00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:12,960
heard at all i think because its biggest

777
00:31:17,420 --> 00:31:16,050
involves an effort yes that's right and

778
00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:17,430
we all know that they're actually more

779
00:31:21,500 --> 00:31:19,170
likely yeah well exactly that's how

780
00:31:23,510 --> 00:31:21,510
things go how would you describe the

781
00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:23,520
crowd here it's a Canberra skeptics

782
00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:26,490
National Convention and it's a type of

783
00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:32,610
person you know all ages all walks of

784
00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:35,450
life yeah and then it's not overly nerdy

785
00:31:41,060 --> 00:31:38,730
are there are some nerds he are awesome

786
00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:41,070
what's your specialty surf a lot of

787
00:31:45,290 --> 00:31:43,530
locked up to hurry oh okay so you'd be

788
00:31:50,150 --> 00:31:45,300
excited about the 50 years this weekend

789
00:31:52,070 --> 00:31:50,160
yeah no no no Doctor Who star trek okay

790
00:31:53,780 --> 00:31:52,080
now do you get in now I know there's a

791
00:31:55,460 --> 00:31:53,790
massive schism there I know the two

792
00:31:57,920 --> 00:31:55,470
sides don't get on how do you go with

793
00:32:00,230 --> 00:31:57,930
that um slightly towards Doctor Who am

794
00:32:02,540 --> 00:32:00,240
afraid okay is what's the problem with

795
00:32:05,420 --> 00:32:02,550
Star Trek is just Americanism is it a

796
00:32:08,330 --> 00:32:05,430
bit militaristic hots all right what say

797
00:32:10,370 --> 00:32:08,340
it well it's it's it's a little bit more

798
00:32:12,620 --> 00:32:10,380
plausible in some respects but doctor

799
00:32:14,810 --> 00:32:12,630
who's more entertaining but what's a bit

800
00:32:16,790 --> 00:32:14,820
better are they well that's great I mean

801
00:32:18,650 --> 00:32:16,800
also he basically turns up where people

802
00:32:20,150 --> 00:32:18,660
don't expect him to turn up at a time

803
00:32:22,090 --> 00:32:20,160
that he's not expected to be there and

804
00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:22,100
well that's your story really isn't

805
00:32:27,250 --> 00:32:23,690
I think the concepts of any place any

806
00:32:29,230 --> 00:32:27,260
time is pretty mind-blowing of course

807
00:32:31,270 --> 00:32:29,240
we're here at the canberra suburb of

808
00:32:33,159 --> 00:32:31,280
action as i like to call it it's a great

809
00:32:35,500 --> 00:32:33,169
suburban who we got here from the CSIRO

810
00:32:37,390 --> 00:32:35,510
I'm Stephanie routley and what are you

811
00:32:38,980 --> 00:32:37,400
doing in the foyer here at the launch

812
00:32:40,750 --> 00:32:38,990
here this afternoon we have a few

813
00:32:42,340 --> 00:32:40,760
different experiments but right now we

814
00:32:45,370 --> 00:32:42,350
have a couple of stick insects some

815
00:32:47,710 --> 00:32:45,380
Giants finally stick insects now I got

816
00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:47,720
the huntsman spiders scare the poop out

817
00:32:51,909 --> 00:32:50,690
of me these are much bigger now you say

818
00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:51,919
these are from the east coast of

819
00:32:54,909 --> 00:32:53,210
Australia what do they eat their

820
00:32:57,399 --> 00:32:54,919
vegetarian they are in fact there for

821
00:32:59,289 --> 00:32:57,409
Liveris so they only eat gum leaves so

822
00:33:01,419 --> 00:32:59,299
only eucalyptus companies and just by

823
00:33:03,340 --> 00:33:01,429
the fact that they look horrifying they

824
00:33:04,990 --> 00:33:03,350
actually are quite quite pathetic they

825
00:33:06,340 --> 00:33:05,000
can't actually doing very much to defend

826
00:33:08,500 --> 00:33:06,350
themselves they're not aggressive in any

827
00:33:10,419 --> 00:33:08,510
way so they're not hunt well I mean in

828
00:33:11,380 --> 00:33:10,429
fact there quiet-like husbands and that

829
00:33:14,470 --> 00:33:11,390
they don't actually do anything

830
00:33:16,570 --> 00:33:14,480
aggressive and what's their part in the

831
00:33:18,610 --> 00:33:16,580
ecosystem they get rid of old gum leaves

832
00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:18,620
aren't any good what's their part they

833
00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:20,210
like the tastiest ones you know

834
00:33:24,279 --> 00:33:22,370
naturally but actually they have a very

835
00:33:25,810 --> 00:33:24,289
interesting relationship with ants so

836
00:33:27,789 --> 00:33:25,820
the female stick insects when they have

837
00:33:29,409 --> 00:33:27,799
their babies they drop their eggs out

838
00:33:31,450 --> 00:33:29,419
onto the forest floor but they attach a

839
00:33:32,710 --> 00:33:31,460
little caps you love sugar and the

840
00:33:34,570 --> 00:33:32,720
reason they attach a little capsule of

841
00:33:36,909 --> 00:33:34,580
sugar is so at the ants that live all

842
00:33:39,010 --> 00:33:36,919
over the first floor obviously and can

843
00:33:41,230 --> 00:33:39,020
also carry eight times their body weight

844
00:33:42,730 --> 00:33:41,240
come and pick up the eggs with a capsule

845
00:33:44,710 --> 00:33:42,740
of sugar touch and they take it back to

846
00:33:46,649 --> 00:33:44,720
their nest so that they can share the

847
00:33:49,330 --> 00:33:46,659
sugar around with the rest of the colony

848
00:33:51,130 --> 00:33:49,340
but what's fascinating is they eat the

849
00:33:52,330 --> 00:33:51,140
sugar of the stick insect babies but

850
00:33:54,279 --> 00:33:52,340
they don't actually eat the egg itself

851
00:33:55,659 --> 00:33:54,289
and the reason they don't eat the egg

852
00:33:58,720 --> 00:33:55,669
itself is because they have the same

853
00:34:00,970 --> 00:33:58,730
pheromones as baby ants they smell

854
00:34:03,310 --> 00:34:00,980
exactly the same and so that's an

855
00:34:04,870 --> 00:34:03,320
example of a symbiotic relationship in

856
00:34:06,549 --> 00:34:04,880
the environment whereby you have two

857
00:34:07,930 --> 00:34:06,559
animals living in harmony and aiding the

858
00:34:10,359 --> 00:34:07,940
development of the other one so in this

859
00:34:12,190 --> 00:34:10,369
situation the ants are are receiving the

860
00:34:14,020 --> 00:34:12,200
food the sustenance of from the sugar

861
00:34:15,460 --> 00:34:14,030
and the transporting the eggs and the

862
00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:15,470
transporting it and so in return that

863
00:34:19,389 --> 00:34:17,090
yeah the stick insects are receiving

864
00:34:21,879 --> 00:34:19,399
that shelter that protection now if the

865
00:34:23,770 --> 00:34:21,889
stick insect here like suddenly isn't

866
00:34:24,669 --> 00:34:23,780
chilling out or is a bit upset can you

867
00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:24,679
actually tell

868
00:34:28,359 --> 00:34:27,050
so it's interesting so the females you

869
00:34:29,710 --> 00:34:28,369
can tell straight away so they do this

870
00:34:31,450 --> 00:34:29,720
funny thing where they lift their tails

871
00:34:34,510 --> 00:34:31,460
up to make them look like scorpions yeah

872
00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:34,520
but the males the males are bits are the

873
00:34:37,119 --> 00:34:36,050
male's fly that's their defense

874
00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:37,129
mechanism and so when they're scared

875
00:34:41,230 --> 00:34:38,690
there's the bell either stay very very

876
00:34:43,180 --> 00:34:41,240
still or they'll fly away sometimes they

877
00:34:44,829 --> 00:34:43,190
both drew a sort of little wiggle to

878
00:34:46,780 --> 00:34:44,839
look like they're wind look like a

879
00:34:48,579 --> 00:34:46,790
little leaf we're doing in the wind but

880
00:34:51,819 --> 00:34:48,589
um but no it's the females that are the

881
00:34:52,780 --> 00:34:51,829
most distinct when they're scared are

882
00:34:54,099 --> 00:34:52,790
these ones from the east coast of

883
00:34:55,899 --> 00:34:54,109
Australia is similar to ones found

884
00:34:57,819 --> 00:34:55,909
around the world are they all similar

885
00:35:00,160 --> 00:34:57,829
kind of look are ours a little bit

886
00:35:02,380 --> 00:35:00,170
different in color or shape well with

887
00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:02,390
their Giants pineys the females are much

888
00:35:05,740 --> 00:35:04,010
larger and they look much more like

889
00:35:07,690 --> 00:35:05,750
leaves then the difference between the

890
00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:07,700
sexes of others second section I can't

891
00:35:11,710 --> 00:35:09,890
say in terms of international stick

892
00:35:14,049 --> 00:35:11,720
insect Creed's I'm afraid I don't know

893
00:35:16,210 --> 00:35:14,059
but but there are others chicken snake

894
00:35:18,490 --> 00:35:16,220
species in Australia where the females

895
00:35:20,559 --> 00:35:18,500
are more similar to the males and you

896
00:35:22,270 --> 00:35:20,569
can get them in all sorts of colors and

897
00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:22,280
sizes and things like that with the

898
00:35:27,430 --> 00:35:24,290
indigenous population have eaten them I

899
00:35:29,740 --> 00:35:27,440
imagine so but I wouldn't be able to

900
00:35:31,539 --> 00:35:29,750
verify that I'm afraid yeah yes good

901
00:35:34,150 --> 00:35:31,549
because they just don't look tasty do

902
00:35:36,339 --> 00:35:34,160
they know not the most enticing of three

903
00:35:37,720 --> 00:35:36,349
cheese yeah okay well look I hope you go

904
00:35:39,069 --> 00:35:37,730
great have you ever lost one evil is it

905
00:35:40,720 --> 00:35:39,079
have been showing it to someone and

906
00:35:42,700 --> 00:35:40,730
wandered off absolutely the male's

907
00:35:44,690 --> 00:35:42,710
flying all the time up in the trees we

908
00:35:49,069 --> 00:35:44,700
have upper back there hold you

909
00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:49,079
right thank you very much now in a

910
00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:51,930
disreputable corner of the opening night

911
00:35:55,490 --> 00:35:53,970
of the conference here who've we got my

912
00:35:57,319 --> 00:35:55,500
name is Andrew and you just been doing

913
00:35:59,750 --> 00:35:57,329
some very effective cold reading using

914
00:36:01,069 --> 00:35:59,760
the tarot card the advantage of using

915
00:36:03,230 --> 00:36:01,079
tarot cards is that you don't have to

916
00:36:05,839 --> 00:36:03,240
call read because the cards do all the

917
00:36:07,550 --> 00:36:05,849
work for you okay and would you try to

918
00:36:08,870 --> 00:36:07,560
either gear I mean I'm trying to think

919
00:36:10,849 --> 00:36:08,880
what other ones do it for you but you're

920
00:36:11,990 --> 00:36:10,859
right it was it is all laid out there

921
00:36:14,300 --> 00:36:12,000
and it's just a matter of you

922
00:36:15,710 --> 00:36:14,310
interpreting it now how do you calibrate

923
00:36:17,870 --> 00:36:15,720
a person what do you look for in the

924
00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:17,880
face to change or what is the one thing

925
00:36:24,260 --> 00:36:19,490
that's got to change in their face

926
00:36:26,750 --> 00:36:24,270
recognition when you lay out a card and

927
00:36:28,670 --> 00:36:26,760
you say well this card represents this

928
00:36:31,339 --> 00:36:28,680
and is ness does that mean anything to

929
00:36:35,060 --> 00:36:31,349
you and they go ah yes that means

930
00:36:36,859 --> 00:36:35,070
something to me that's that's my mum so

931
00:36:40,849 --> 00:36:36,869
that's the thing that you can you can

932
00:36:42,020 --> 00:36:40,859
hook your story on to impress them okay

933
00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:42,030
and it's all about impressing them

934
00:36:45,349 --> 00:36:43,890
really and what's your favorite card to

935
00:36:46,609 --> 00:36:45,359
get in that cold really you just did

936
00:36:47,780 --> 00:36:46,619
there with the tarot card you got the

937
00:36:49,010 --> 00:36:47,790
fool that's pretty good what's your

938
00:36:50,720 --> 00:36:49,020
favorite one that you like getting the

939
00:36:53,089 --> 00:36:50,730
Emperor's always a good one because it's

940
00:36:56,030 --> 00:36:53,099
double-sided isn't it yes the Emperor is

941
00:36:58,670 --> 00:36:56,040
definitely too faced I don't know I do

942
00:37:00,620 --> 00:36:58,680
like the fool the fool if you have a

943
00:37:02,720 --> 00:37:00,630
look at a standard deck of tarot cards

944
00:37:05,870 --> 00:37:02,730
the fool is is setting off on a journey

945
00:37:08,750 --> 00:37:05,880
and he's about to step over a cliff so

946
00:37:12,230 --> 00:37:08,760
to relate that to somebody's life you

947
00:37:14,210 --> 00:37:12,240
say well you're about to embark on some

948
00:37:15,380 --> 00:37:14,220
sort of endeavor you don't know exactly

949
00:37:17,329 --> 00:37:15,390
where it's going to go you don't know

950
00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:17,339
how it's going to work but you're you're

951
00:37:21,559 --> 00:37:19,050
determined and you and you're setting

952
00:37:23,210 --> 00:37:21,569
out you're taking those first steps so

953
00:37:26,030 --> 00:37:23,220
it's very well I mean a lot of people

954
00:37:27,829 --> 00:37:26,040
can can relate to that have you actually

955
00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:27,839
encounter people that think you have

956
00:37:33,710 --> 00:37:31,650
genuine fortune-telling talent no

957
00:37:36,620 --> 00:37:33,720
for a start because I never claimed to

958
00:37:37,790 --> 00:37:36,630
have it but sometimes they go are ya but

959
00:37:40,340 --> 00:37:37,800
you do have it you just don't want to

960
00:37:42,230 --> 00:37:40,350
admit it there is that I I personally

961
00:37:44,230 --> 00:37:42,240
have not encountered that I have I do

962
00:37:47,690 --> 00:37:44,240
know people who have encountered that I

963
00:37:51,860 --> 00:37:47,700
personally have not I'm always at pains

964
00:37:54,980 --> 00:37:51,870
to explain my the title of my quote

965
00:37:56,990 --> 00:37:54,990
unquote talk there is a skeptical guide

966
00:37:59,870 --> 00:37:57,000
to the Tarot and how it quote unquote

967
00:38:03,170 --> 00:37:59,880
works and those those quote marks are

968
00:38:05,770 --> 00:38:03,180
very important and and you can't see me

969
00:38:08,450 --> 00:38:05,780
doing the air quotes here but but I am

970
00:38:10,730 --> 00:38:08,460
because the Tarot does quite unquote

971
00:38:14,330 --> 00:38:10,740
work so long as you understand what i

972
00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:14,340
mean by working mostly see my astrologer

973
00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:16,410
friend Jessica Adams has always taught

974
00:38:19,910 --> 00:38:18,570
me Maynard don't mess with the tarot or

975
00:38:22,520 --> 00:38:19,920
the Ouija board because that's where the

976
00:38:24,020 --> 00:38:22,530
the lower souls kind of hang out and she

977
00:38:25,010 --> 00:38:24,030
thinks it's not good to mess with that

978
00:38:27,740 --> 00:38:25,020
kind of stuff but you haven't

979
00:38:31,280 --> 00:38:27,750
encountered any problems no no because

980
00:38:33,050 --> 00:38:31,290
they don't exist right I was always told

981
00:38:34,670 --> 00:38:33,060
during myhnegon neo-pagan phase that

982
00:38:36,290 --> 00:38:34,680
yeah you don't you don't mess with Ouija

983
00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:36,300
boards because we towards summon

984
00:38:40,130 --> 00:38:38,490
elementals and elementals are

985
00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:40,140
mischievous spirits who don't actually

986
00:38:45,020 --> 00:38:42,090
want to help you out or anything they

987
00:38:47,990 --> 00:38:45,030
just want to mess with your head but the

988
00:38:49,730 --> 00:38:48,000
elementals don't exist so yeah it is it

989
00:38:51,230 --> 00:38:49,740
possible that just doing the Ouija board

990
00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:51,240
is your kind of mucking around in that

991
00:38:55,310 --> 00:38:52,890
area anyway so you know you could be a

992
00:38:57,590 --> 00:38:55,320
bit confused to start with well yeah the

993
00:38:59,930 --> 00:38:57,600
thing about the Ouija board is that it's

994
00:39:01,280 --> 00:38:59,940
ultimately being controlled

995
00:39:05,060 --> 00:39:01,290
the people who have their fingers on

996
00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:05,070
that plan Chad are exerting force on it

997
00:39:09,950 --> 00:39:07,770
and moving it around so it's it's not as

998
00:39:13,250 --> 00:39:09,960
easy as the taro is because that the

999
00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:13,260
taro has a picture of of everything I've

1000
00:39:18,470 --> 00:39:15,210
got one right here it's the it's the two

1001
00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:18,480
of swords we've got a a blindfolded

1002
00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:21,810
maiden by a sea carrying two swords

1003
00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:25,410
crossed across a chest so sword the

1004
00:39:32,450 --> 00:39:27,210
sword represents the intellect the mind

1005
00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:32,460
thoughts so we've got an image of blind

1006
00:39:37,250 --> 00:39:34,890
justice here we've got a choice of

1007
00:39:41,180 --> 00:39:37,260
between two two particular intellectual

1008
00:39:43,730 --> 00:39:41,190
paths I think all of these images

1009
00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:43,740
already you've got something we could be

1010
00:39:47,330 --> 00:39:46,050
taken two or three ways there and you're

1011
00:39:50,990 --> 00:39:47,340
looking at the person and you're away

1012
00:39:53,930 --> 00:39:51,000
exactly exactly so the terror the the

1013
00:39:56,780 --> 00:39:53,940
analogy I used in my talk was tossing a

1014
00:39:59,270 --> 00:39:56,790
coin right you say I don't know whether

1015
00:40:01,850 --> 00:39:59,280
I want steak or I one pastor all right

1016
00:40:03,860 --> 00:40:01,860
so I'll toss a coin alright so we've all

1017
00:40:05,630 --> 00:40:03,870
tossed a coin to to make a decision

1018
00:40:10,460 --> 00:40:05,640
between two things so you toss a coin

1019
00:40:11,780 --> 00:40:10,470
and we go heads okay I'll have steak but

1020
00:40:14,330 --> 00:40:11,790
no I don't really want steak I want

1021
00:40:18,710 --> 00:40:14,340
pasta right the coin hasn't made the

1022
00:40:20,090 --> 00:40:18,720
decision for you but it has clarified in

1023
00:40:22,730 --> 00:40:20,100
your mind that you actually do one

1024
00:40:24,110 --> 00:40:22,740
passed on all right the the answer on

1025
00:40:27,110 --> 00:40:24,120
the coin wasn't the answer that you went

1026
00:40:30,200 --> 00:40:27,120
with even but you were able to make the

1027
00:40:32,180 --> 00:40:30,210
decision with the help of the coin with

1028
00:40:34,310 --> 00:40:32,190
Terrell it's exactly the same they help

1029
00:40:39,110 --> 00:40:34,320
you to come to decisions they don't

1030
00:40:41,300 --> 00:40:39,120
provide any mystical information any any

1031
00:40:42,770 --> 00:40:41,310
information about somebody's life that

1032
00:40:44,930 --> 00:40:42,780
comes out in the Tarot is actually

1033
00:40:48,860 --> 00:40:44,940
coming out in their own head prompted by

1034
00:40:51,380 --> 00:40:48,870
the images on the Tarot so it's a very

1035
00:40:52,710 --> 00:40:51,390
easy shortcut way to to start cold

1036
00:40:55,530 --> 00:40:52,720
reading someone

1037
00:40:56,880 --> 00:40:55,540
as I said in my talk that I mean there's

1038
00:40:59,460 --> 00:40:56,890
a really good book about the techniques

1039
00:41:01,980 --> 00:40:59,470
of cold reading by Ian Roland full facts

1040
00:41:03,390 --> 00:41:01,990
book of cold reading I recommend it but

1041
00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:03,400
with the terror you can like throw it

1042
00:41:08,580 --> 00:41:06,130
all out because it's all replaced by

1043
00:41:09,870 --> 00:41:08,590
these images on the cards okay well

1044
00:41:10,950 --> 00:41:09,880
you're gonna have a lot of fun this

1045
00:41:13,740 --> 00:41:10,960
weekend I think with that kind of

1046
00:41:15,710 --> 00:41:13,750
ability yes I think I am one last

1047
00:41:20,610 --> 00:41:15,720
question what's your favorite conspiracy

1048
00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:20,620
ah it has to be the Illuminati oh so

1049
00:41:25,110 --> 00:41:24,010
overarching yes exactly and and I don't

1050
00:41:27,270 --> 00:41:25,120
know if you've noticed but we're in

1051
00:41:29,790 --> 00:41:27,280
Canberra at the moment you look at a map

1052
00:41:31,950 --> 00:41:29,800
of Canberra we have what we call the

1053
00:41:33,390 --> 00:41:31,960
Prime that parliamentary triangle it's

1054
00:41:37,050 --> 00:41:33,400
Commonwealth Avenue and kings avenue

1055
00:41:41,310 --> 00:41:37,060
they converge at parliament house but in

1056
00:41:44,070 --> 00:41:41,320
between them there's this round King

1057
00:41:47,040 --> 00:41:44,080
Edward terrace which has old parliament

1058
00:41:48,630 --> 00:41:47,050
house in it and if you look at that it

1059
00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:48,640
looks exactly like the eye in the

1060
00:41:55,410 --> 00:41:50,890
pyramid of the American one dollar bill

1061
00:41:56,850 --> 00:41:55,420
and other symbols as well so yeah it's

1062
00:41:59,280 --> 00:41:56,860
an aluminum is it actually it's a

1063
00:42:00,450 --> 00:41:59,290
Masonic symbol but anyway and the guy

1064
00:42:03,290 --> 00:42:00,460
had designed it was amazing and they

1065
00:42:06,900 --> 00:42:03,300
love putting symbols in everything I

1066
00:42:09,660 --> 00:42:06,910
hate to lose you but

1067
00:42:12,900 --> 00:42:09,670
is this your picture oh there's no way

1068
00:42:17,039 --> 00:42:12,910
that's my picture Oh have you got a

1069
00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:17,049
partner here no oh well if you did I

1070
00:42:30,020 --> 00:42:20,770
would say to them bad news your hubby is

1071
00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:33,809
okay right one last chance for you to

1072
00:42:39,900 --> 00:42:36,490
get it right ok now I've just witnessed

1073
00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:39,910
an exhibition of dr. quit Wilson calling

1074
00:42:43,140 --> 00:42:41,530
bull crap you are calling bull crap on

1075
00:42:45,210 --> 00:42:43,150
members of the audience and then you

1076
00:42:47,010 --> 00:42:45,220
yourself was called bull crap you were

1077
00:42:49,620 --> 00:42:47,020
shenanigans shenanigans was called on

1078
00:42:51,690 --> 00:42:49,630
you yep absolutely shenanigans lyod

1079
00:42:53,849 --> 00:42:51,700
aight they are both on my CV what were

1080
00:42:57,180 --> 00:42:53,859
you doing there well what I was trying

1081
00:42:58,950 --> 00:42:57,190
to do was to show that anyone can be

1082
00:43:01,410 --> 00:42:58,960
fooled now look we are in a room for a

1083
00:43:04,109 --> 00:43:01,420
very well-informed skeptical people who

1084
00:43:07,380 --> 00:43:04,119
are on the lookout always for you know

1085
00:43:08,579 --> 00:43:07,390
scams etc but even the most in Tony it

1086
00:43:10,470 --> 00:43:08,589
doesn't matter how intelligent you are

1087
00:43:12,510 --> 00:43:10,480
how well-educated where you come from

1088
00:43:14,970 --> 00:43:12,520
what your background is how smart you

1089
00:43:17,099 --> 00:43:14,980
think you are anyone can be forward and

1090
00:43:19,410 --> 00:43:17,109
tonight they wanted to believe that it

1091
00:43:20,609 --> 00:43:19,420
was possible to be out of our lawyer I

1092
00:43:24,329 --> 00:43:20,619
mean wouldn't that be a great thing to

1093
00:43:27,900 --> 00:43:24,339
go to do and so I i sold it that it's

1094
00:43:29,670 --> 00:43:27,910
psychology that it's something real and

1095
00:43:32,370 --> 00:43:29,680
perceptible and tangible that we can all

1096
00:43:33,630 --> 00:43:32,380
do and you know they all fell for it in

1097
00:43:37,230 --> 00:43:33,640
fact your trick was cheaper than a

1098
00:43:39,269 --> 00:43:37,240
push-up bra when it was cheap actually

1099
00:43:42,029 --> 00:43:39,279
very ching but if it's a trick actually

1100
00:43:43,589 --> 00:43:42,039
that's used a lot by psychics because

1101
00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:43,599
this there's lots of different ways you

1102
00:43:48,150 --> 00:43:45,010
can do it you can pretend that you're

1103
00:43:50,160 --> 00:43:48,160
psychic and use the same trick but I

1104
00:43:51,760 --> 00:43:50,170
thought it might be might be really nice

1105
00:43:54,010 --> 00:43:51,770
to use it

1106
00:43:56,080 --> 00:43:54,020
from a psychology point of view and to

1107
00:43:58,450 --> 00:43:56,090
try and sell the idea that we portray

1108
00:44:01,060 --> 00:43:58,460
ourselves when we use body language if

1109
00:44:03,070 --> 00:44:01,070
we're trying to get away with a lie and

1110
00:44:04,120 --> 00:44:03,080
every time I've done it it's always

1111
00:44:06,930 --> 00:44:04,130
worked really nicely I know

1112
00:44:09,640 --> 00:44:06,940
unfortunately my wonderful friend Lori

1113
00:44:11,770 --> 00:44:09,650
thanks Lori he's got to the punch line

1114
00:44:14,230 --> 00:44:11,780
do you soon you're stepping on your

1115
00:44:15,610 --> 00:44:14,240
punch line and of course this weekend

1116
00:44:17,230 --> 00:44:15,620
all about conspiracies here at the

1117
00:44:18,820 --> 00:44:17,240
National Convention what it do you think

1118
00:44:21,120 --> 00:44:18,830
is the most interesting conspiracy or

1119
00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:21,130
even one you wouldn't like to be real

1120
00:44:24,430 --> 00:44:23,330
what would I like to be real that you

1121
00:44:26,700 --> 00:44:24,440
would like to be real all of these

1122
00:44:30,790 --> 00:44:26,710
conspiracy you would like to be real I

1123
00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:30,800
would be hugely amused if it turned out

1124
00:44:37,030 --> 00:44:33,410
that we didn't actually land on the moon

1125
00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:37,040
and and you know and they've been doing

1126
00:44:40,720 --> 00:44:38,930
a cover-up and the whole uncovering of

1127
00:44:42,970 --> 00:44:40,730
the cover-up was a cover-up itself and

1128
00:44:45,280 --> 00:44:42,980
absolutely i mean the alien things just

1129
00:44:47,920 --> 00:44:45,290
silly and the JFK thing is just too

1130
00:44:49,930 --> 00:44:47,930
far-fetched but if it turned out that we

1131
00:44:52,060 --> 00:44:49,940
didn't actually all the Americans didn't

1132
00:44:53,950 --> 00:44:52,070
actually land on the moon I think that

1133
00:44:55,660 --> 00:44:53,960
would I think that would be wonderful

1134
00:44:57,430 --> 00:44:55,670
and when the information of the press

1135
00:45:01,540 --> 00:44:57,440
conference comes out in the distance

1136
00:45:04,720 --> 00:45:01,550
you'll hear this small child yup the

1137
00:45:09,580 --> 00:45:04,730
boys are the immortal bard Nelson love

1138
00:45:11,710 --> 00:45:09,590
it well we met some stick insect some

1139
00:45:13,510 --> 00:45:11,720
leaf insects earlier who we got here so

1140
00:45:16,420 --> 00:45:13,520
these are our Eastern longneck turtles

1141
00:45:19,180 --> 00:45:16,430
we have Mendeleev with the black shell

1142
00:45:21,910 --> 00:45:19,190
and this guy here is Geronimo they're

1143
00:45:24,190 --> 00:45:21,920
both around ten years old sort of nine

1144
00:45:26,980 --> 00:45:24,200
ten years old around the same age also

1145
00:45:28,810 --> 00:45:26,990
around the same size and like I said

1146
00:45:30,850 --> 00:45:28,820
they are turtles they have webbed feet

1147
00:45:33,370 --> 00:45:30,860
and they use them for swimming and what

1148
00:45:35,020 --> 00:45:33,380
do they like with crowds um when when

1149
00:45:36,910 --> 00:45:35,030
they lure when the leaf insects get a

1150
00:45:38,770 --> 00:45:36,920
bit distressed they fly around or they

1151
00:45:40,390 --> 00:45:38,780
go all funny what are these guys do so

1152
00:45:42,299 --> 00:45:40,400
what these guys do is they have musk

1153
00:45:43,589 --> 00:45:42,309
glands in their armpits

1154
00:45:46,140 --> 00:45:43,599
what happens is when they threatened

1155
00:45:48,120 --> 00:45:46,150
they secrete chemicals that smell bad so

1156
00:45:50,099 --> 00:45:48,130
that's a big smell like a fart it could

1157
00:45:52,109 --> 00:45:50,109
be them exactly yeah so they known as

1158
00:45:53,819 --> 00:45:52,119
stinkers and that's the reason why so

1159
00:45:55,799 --> 00:45:53,829
once they get freaked out that's the

1160
00:45:57,179 --> 00:45:55,809
first thing that they will do now I got

1161
00:45:59,789 --> 00:45:57,189
to ask you what's the difference between

1162
00:46:01,199 --> 00:45:59,799
a turtle and a Terrapin oh good question

1163
00:46:05,269 --> 00:46:01,209
so we were just having that discussion

1164
00:46:08,729 --> 00:46:05,279
oh ok so Terrapin could reference a

1165
00:46:10,829 --> 00:46:08,739
tortoise that lives in water okay but

1166
00:46:13,049 --> 00:46:10,839
turtles also the same thing so Terrapin

1167
00:46:14,910 --> 00:46:13,059
is a bit of a confusing term so I don't

1168
00:46:16,410 --> 00:46:14,920
know why that crept into classification

1169
00:46:18,689 --> 00:46:16,420
yeah a lot of people mentioned that they

1170
00:46:20,670 --> 00:46:18,699
aren't always the best pet for children

1171
00:46:22,709 --> 00:46:20,680
because they have a long life cycle yes

1172
00:46:24,660 --> 00:46:22,719
they do definitely so what happens these

1173
00:46:26,880 --> 00:46:24,670
turtles only reach sexual maturity once

1174
00:46:29,039 --> 00:46:26,890
they're 15 so they'll any start laying

1175
00:46:31,109 --> 00:46:29,049
eggs once around 15 and it's up until

1176
00:46:32,910 --> 00:46:31,119
then you can only start sexting them

1177
00:46:34,979 --> 00:46:32,920
once they start laying eggs there's no

1178
00:46:37,229 --> 00:46:34,989
other way to differentiate between them

1179
00:46:38,519 --> 00:46:37,239
so you have to wait a long time in order

1180
00:46:39,870 --> 00:46:38,529
to find out whether it's a boy or girl

1181
00:46:42,089 --> 00:46:39,880
so it's going to be difficult to name

1182
00:46:44,900 --> 00:46:42,099
them so they can live up to 50 years

1183
00:46:47,699 --> 00:46:44,910
okay some of them can exceed that

1184
00:46:49,650 --> 00:46:47,709
generally they will last around 50 years

1185
00:46:51,689 --> 00:46:49,660
if they have enough space available to

1186
00:46:52,979 --> 00:46:51,699
them and also food if they have no

1187
00:46:56,249 --> 00:46:52,989
restrictions than they can get pretty

1188
00:46:57,839 --> 00:46:56,259
big and what are they food for I imagine

1189
00:46:59,459 --> 00:46:57,849
the indigenous population might have

1190
00:47:01,799 --> 00:46:59,469
enjoyed making a soup or a snack on them

1191
00:47:03,359 --> 00:47:01,809
yep so most of the indigenous people

1192
00:47:06,809 --> 00:47:03,369
would have eaten them and there'll also

1193
00:47:08,549 --> 00:47:06,819
be other predators that lurking in the

1194
00:47:10,589 --> 00:47:08,559
water as well so you might get some

1195
00:47:12,630 --> 00:47:10,599
other reptiles larger reptiles that my

1196
00:47:14,279 --> 00:47:12,640
prey on them it would have to have a

1197
00:47:15,929 --> 00:47:14,289
pretty strong jaw though in order to get

1198
00:47:17,939 --> 00:47:15,939
through that shell but there are also

1199
00:47:19,349 --> 00:47:17,949
some birds that also eat turtles they'll

1200
00:47:21,630 --> 00:47:19,359
also eat them once they did if they

1201
00:47:24,929 --> 00:47:21,640
beached you might get on some birds that

1202
00:47:26,489 --> 00:47:24,939
will snack on them even the fleshy parts

1203
00:47:28,259 --> 00:47:26,499
of them don't look that inviting yeah

1204
00:47:30,150 --> 00:47:28,269
definitely not and especially if they

1205
00:47:32,400 --> 00:47:30,160
feel threatened and they covered in that

1206
00:47:34,410 --> 00:47:32,410
musk gland fluid I wouldn't want to be

1207
00:47:35,310 --> 00:47:34,420
eating here it's going to taste horrible

1208
00:47:37,110 --> 00:47:35,320
yeah

1209
00:47:39,660 --> 00:47:37,120
now you've brought been bringing animals

1210
00:47:41,070 --> 00:47:39,670
out on idea at the CSIRO Center um what

1211
00:47:42,660 --> 00:47:41,080
else you got you got some kelpies

1212
00:47:45,090 --> 00:47:42,670
downstairs what looks what else you got

1213
00:47:47,100 --> 00:47:45,100
here so what we have is at the moment we

1214
00:47:49,080 --> 00:47:47,110
only have stick insects and turtles we

1215
00:47:50,910 --> 00:47:49,090
also have a scampi that runs around in

1216
00:47:52,620 --> 00:47:50,920
there now and again I don't want to

1217
00:47:55,380 --> 00:47:52,630
handle him but he's in there we also

1218
00:47:57,450 --> 00:47:55,390
have armed some fish we have a little

1219
00:47:59,370 --> 00:47:57,460
aquarium with corals in it live corals

1220
00:48:01,470 --> 00:47:59,380
which is doing really well they actually

1221
00:48:03,360 --> 00:48:01,480
look really really cool we have some

1222
00:48:05,160 --> 00:48:03,370
fish in there like I said other than

1223
00:48:06,540 --> 00:48:05,170
that there's not an awful lot going on

1224
00:48:07,890 --> 00:48:06,550
when it comes to animals do you think

1225
00:48:09,720 --> 00:48:07,900
you could take a crack at having a tame

1226
00:48:11,040 --> 00:48:09,730
dingo that's very Australian it could

1227
00:48:12,870 --> 00:48:11,050
run around the poi at a keep all the

1228
00:48:15,240 --> 00:48:12,880
cats away it would it would we might

1229
00:48:16,590 --> 00:48:15,250
actually need one that might be hand you

1230
00:48:18,840 --> 00:48:16,600
have a great time how come how long can

1231
00:48:20,340 --> 00:48:18,850
you lead them out you know we don't dry

1232
00:48:21,990 --> 00:48:20,350
out how long can they be out of water so

1233
00:48:23,880 --> 00:48:22,000
they can spend a few hours out of water

1234
00:48:26,640 --> 00:48:23,890
and generally they can actually spend

1235
00:48:28,440 --> 00:48:26,650
sort of up to six hours I'd imagine

1236
00:48:30,420 --> 00:48:28,450
before they begin to dry out and it's

1237
00:48:31,650 --> 00:48:30,430
also depends on the sunlight so they'll

1238
00:48:33,720 --> 00:48:31,660
come out more at night than they do

1239
00:48:35,910 --> 00:48:33,730
during the day for obvious reasons cool

1240
00:48:37,410 --> 00:48:35,920
and people love petting them definitely

1241
00:48:39,870 --> 00:48:37,420
yep so they love touching their shells

1242
00:48:41,010 --> 00:48:39,880
also looking underneath people don't

1243
00:48:42,090 --> 00:48:41,020
often get to see what it looks like

1244
00:48:44,520 --> 00:48:42,100
underneath and that's quite different

1245
00:48:46,500 --> 00:48:44,530
actually from that angle it looks like a

1246
00:48:47,880 --> 00:48:46,510
really expensive purse because it's

1247
00:48:49,170 --> 00:48:47,890
because all these legs have folded away

1248
00:48:50,730 --> 00:48:49,180
and it just looks like it's a square

1249
00:48:52,050 --> 00:48:50,740
yeah and there's a nice pattern

1250
00:48:54,120 --> 00:48:52,060
underneath as well which is different

1251
00:48:55,290 --> 00:48:54,130
than all of them well most people don't

1252
00:48:57,120 --> 00:48:55,300
know about that because they only see

1253
00:48:58,560 --> 00:48:57,130
them from the top yeah so it's quite

1254
00:48:59,640 --> 00:48:58,570
fascinating when you first see it that's

1255
00:49:01,500 --> 00:48:59,650
right but they're not good for kids

1256
00:49:03,810 --> 00:49:01,510
because they live for a long time and

1257
00:49:05,610 --> 00:49:03,820
kids get bored sometimes exactly yet and

1258
00:49:07,290 --> 00:49:05,620
they might stop caring for them and then

1259
00:49:09,150 --> 00:49:07,300
that's not gonna end well

1260
00:49:11,070 --> 00:49:09,160
I probably wouldn't have them as a pet

1261
00:49:12,360 --> 00:49:11,080
especially if I'm a young kid maybe if

1262
00:49:13,680 --> 00:49:12,370
you're a bit older and you really care

1263
00:49:15,810 --> 00:49:13,690
about turtles then it would be a good

1264
00:49:17,280 --> 00:49:15,820
idea but they need a lot of cares so

1265
00:49:18,840 --> 00:49:17,290
you've got to be prepared to take them

1266
00:49:20,610 --> 00:49:18,850
out of the tank give them a lot of

1267
00:49:22,500 --> 00:49:20,620
exercise whilst they going to get bored

1268
00:49:24,720 --> 00:49:22,510
and good they're going to die young I

1269
00:49:27,060 --> 00:49:24,730
can't say I've ever seen a fat one yeah

1270
00:49:29,070 --> 00:49:27,070
you can you can get fat ones but those

1271
00:49:30,720 --> 00:49:29,080
are generally found in the wild when you

1272
00:49:32,790 --> 00:49:30,730
keep Turtles you can only keep them in a

1273
00:49:34,530 --> 00:49:32,800
tank that has a limited size so they

1274
00:49:36,300 --> 00:49:34,540
eventually grow too big for the tank and

1275
00:49:37,650 --> 00:49:36,310
they have to stop growing and that's the

1276
00:49:39,030 --> 00:49:37,660
case with these guys these guys won't

1277
00:49:52,710 --> 00:49:39,040
get much bigger just because there's not

1278
00:49:54,690 --> 00:49:52,720
enough space available to them hi I'm

1279
00:49:56,730 --> 00:49:54,700
Finn and I'm Rebecca and where the

1280
00:49:58,470 --> 00:49:56,740
skipper clones skipper Collins is an

1281
00:50:00,150 --> 00:49:58,480
Irish podcast by the Dublin skeptics

1282
00:50:01,710 --> 00:50:00,160
society it takes a conversational

1283
00:50:03,000 --> 00:50:01,720
reverent look at science news and

1284
00:50:06,510 --> 00:50:03,010
skeptical topics from an Irish

1285
00:50:09,950 --> 00:50:06,520
perspective you can find us out wws

1286
00:50:09,960 --> 00:50:21,380
spirit

1287
00:50:29,780 --> 00:50:26,150
oh oh we fish which may not they're

1288
00:50:31,250 --> 00:50:29,790
great oh sorry mmm mmm thank you for

1289
00:50:33,200 --> 00:50:31,260
listening to the skeptic zone that's

1290
00:50:34,790 --> 00:50:33,210
Richard full mouth Saunders ah you

1291
00:50:36,920 --> 00:50:34,800
caught me I was enjoying the show so

1292
00:50:38,870 --> 00:50:36,930
much i was eating a biscuit was doing

1293
00:50:39,770 --> 00:50:38,880
well quite a show and of course just a

1294
00:50:41,450 --> 00:50:39,780
taste of what's going to be happening

1295
00:50:43,070 --> 00:50:41,460
over the next couple of weeks from this

1296
00:50:45,020 --> 00:50:43,080
convention in canberra people say

1297
00:50:46,520 --> 00:50:45,030
nothing goes on in Canberra and sure

1298
00:50:48,320 --> 00:50:46,530
that's true but this week ended

1299
00:50:49,790 --> 00:50:48,330
something will it's all different this

1300
00:50:51,260 --> 00:50:49,800
weekend and thanks do you mean I know

1301
00:50:53,890 --> 00:50:51,270
you've been running around like the

1302
00:50:56,810 --> 00:50:53,900
flash not with your golden silver

1303
00:50:59,000 --> 00:50:56,820
sparkly coat this time oh no no this

1304
00:51:00,950 --> 00:50:59,010
time no believe you me look look I've

1305
00:51:02,270 --> 00:51:00,960
been spending every passing minute I

1306
00:51:04,070 --> 00:51:02,280
possibly can at the signals intelligence

1307
00:51:05,720 --> 00:51:04,080
unit downtown there and let me tell you

1308
00:51:07,160 --> 00:51:05,730
those people know how to party they do

1309
00:51:09,110 --> 00:51:07,170
we've got hecklers here in the room

1310
00:51:11,000 --> 00:51:09,120
folks I'm sorry to say but it ought be a

1311
00:51:12,980 --> 00:51:11,010
lot coming up in the next few weeks on

1312
00:51:14,690 --> 00:51:12,990
the skeptic zone from the Canberra

1313
00:51:16,100 --> 00:51:14,700
convention with the individual delegates

1314
00:51:17,930 --> 00:51:16,110
and special guests and all sorts of

1315
00:51:19,070 --> 00:51:17,940
things yeah I guess you have to sign off

1316
00:51:20,570 --> 00:51:19,080
now you're going to go back and live in

1317
00:51:21,710 --> 00:51:20,580
the fridge like an all no more lonely

1318
00:51:22,820 --> 00:51:21,720
when you do this from home you go I'm

1319
00:51:24,280 --> 00:51:22,830
just going down to live in the fridge

1320
00:51:27,920 --> 00:51:24,290
for a fortnight need some smoked salmon

1321
00:51:29,930 --> 00:51:27,930
that's what I do between episodes anyway

1322
00:51:32,570 --> 00:51:29,940
for this week its main arden Richard

1323
00:51:35,360 --> 00:51:32,580
signing off from Canberra in the

1324
00:51:41,840 --> 00:51:35,370
Australian Capital Territory the suburb

1325
00:51:46,520 --> 00:51:41,850
of action you've been listening to the

1326
00:51:50,360 --> 00:51:46,530
skeptic zone visit her website at www